© Chris Nash all Kobborg reviews Kobborg 'Mayerling' reviews Kobborg 'Manon' reviews recent RB reviews Philip Bichard reviews Interview and words by Philip Bichard. Bruce Marriott sat in.

In the vast whiteness of the Fonteyn Studio at the Royal Opera House Johan Kobborg was busy rehearsing his Royal Ballet colleagues Lauren Cuthbertson and Martin Harvey in a scene from Bournonville’s Napoli. With just days to the opening of Out of Denmark at the Queen Elizabeth Hall on 17 September, there are still a few details to get right. We watch for ten minutes before Kobborg breaks off to join us. Chewing a Mars bar, he sat on the studio’s sprung floor, stretching his hamstrings as we talked. It was already 5pm and he looked far from done for the day – he confirmed he would likely not finish before 8pm after starting with a company class at noon. Creating your own show is not easy on your schedule and personal time will inevitably suffer. “It’s long days - physically it’s rough. I know people work those hours but…”

Kobborg’s name may not be in the title but Out of Denmark is very much his baby – and he’s feeling the pressure. “If everybody absolutely hates the programme then the chances of doing a similar thing are quite limited. I must say, for me it's more fun if I can put the pressure on just me and myself. I don't mind being late with things to give me a rush - like doing my shoes at the last minute and not knowing whether I can dance in these shoes. I can build up some adrenaline. But suddenly it's about sets and costumes and transportation of sets and whether they get here on time... and it's a different kind of pressure which is not as fun as the personal sort. But if you suddenly have the opportunity to have a theatre like that (Queen Elizabeth Hall) in the middle of London and they give you some dates you can't just say ‘no’ - well, I can't just say ‘no’. Of course not.”

Johan Kobborg preparing for his 'Out of Denmark' show
Photograph by Chris Nash ©

Kobborg is a principal with the Royal Ballet which he joined in 1999 from his home company in Copenhagen, the Royal Danish Ballet. Showing great loyalty and faith through some of the Royal Ballet’s darkest days he has emerged with them into the light, and is now one of the most senior members of the Company, both in terms of experience and the respect in which he is held throughout the world of ballet. He is a true Prince of Denmark in that great tradition, but with a fire and intensity in his dancing even the great Erik Bruhn would admire.

He’s confident Out of Denmark will be right on the night. “Napoli is the only thing where I need to still teach a few things, the rest of the programme is more or less there, it's just a question of building up the stamina, and then of course putting it on stage will be the next step. Spacing the pieces that I've set - making that work and doing the lighting. We only have 2 days in the theatre before and {laughing} Queen Elizabeth is not really used to having big sets - unless it goes in through a door like that {indicating the ordinary double door entrance to the Fonteyn studio} it's not going into the building! But it's going to be ok.”

Kobborg has some previous experience of putting a show together – but never before in the UK. “Five years ago I did a Bournonville group - it was all Danish dancers - and we went to Italy and of course we did Napoli. Then two years ago I did a normal mixed gala programme - we did a couple of shows in the Tivoli Gardens concert hall,

“The fact is that a lot of these ballets are rarely seen so I thought it could be interesting - and also for the dancers too, to work with something different.” Johan Kobborg

Copenhagen.” But he came to a realisation that galas full of short flashy pas de deux and solos with no overall theme were not so interesting for him. He wanted programmes with more stories – and “more meat”, as he puts it, descriptively. The theme he has chosen for Out of Denmark is Danish choreography – many being works he feels should be given more exposure. So it’s not all Bournonville and it’s not all famous – “the fact is that a lot of these ballets are rarely seen so I thought it could be interesting - and also for the dancers too, to work with something different.” In the end, he says, the hardest task has been to cut the show down to a reasonable size, “because there were so many things I wanted to do.”

So it’s a show that should appeal greatly to the dedicated balletomane, as well as anybody with an interest in seeing world-class dance up close and very personal. Is he worried that the audience may have the wrong expectations of what the evening will be like? “I know maybe some people would rather I do Flower Festival of Genzano, La Sylphide... but it also had to be interesting for me and I've done these ballets since I started dancing so that's why maybe I'm not doing that much Bournonville in this programme.“

Johan Kobborg in the studio
Photograph by Chris Nash ©

A long list of impressive dancers have agreed to give up their free time to work on this programme with Kobborg – the likes of Alina Cojocaru, Zenaida Yanowsky, Jamie Tapper, Bethany Keating, Lauren Cuthbertson, Caroline Duprot (who has just joined the RB from English National Ballet) and for the men, Martin Harvey, Johannes Stepanek, Ricardo Cervera and Bennet Gartside. Perhaps the most mouth-watering prospect is the trio of Kobborg himself, Cojocaru as The Pupil and Yanowsky as The Pianist in Fleming Flindt’s The Lesson - which Kobborg himself sees one of the ‘headline’ pieces. “I felt it was quite obvious that these dancers should do it and in my opinion it is quite a good cast.” This is likely to prove an understatement.

The Lesson is a good example of the “meat” Kobborg is seeking in his career. It is the three-handed tale of a ballet master who ends up strangling his Pupil. The audience never knows whether The Teacher is insane or evil, or what the motivation or role of The Pianist is, leading to a disturbing and ambiguous experience – though with a danger of the piece lapsing into melodrama if the performances are not spot on. Rudolf Nureyev danced the role of The Teacher in his farewell tour of the UK in 1991 and it focuses more on acting and mime than physical dance, “Not that The Lesson is not hard, The Lesson is very hard to get through.” As with Kobborg’s triumphant debut as Rudolf in Mayerling last season it is very much a meaty “anti-hero” role for him to get his teeth into. “I have spent most of my career just

“I have spent most of my career just being happy and smiling on stage, being 'sunny boy', so it's interesting where I am now in my career to try and do some character stuff so far away from how am I as a person.” Johan Kobborg

being happy and smiling on stage, being 'sunny boy', so it's interesting where I am now in my career to try and do some character stuff so far away from how am I as a person. At the moment I am very attracted to doing that kind of thing on stage and trying to find a reason why these people are the way they are. It's fun being someone completely different on stage.”

Another interesting piece that Kobborg feels passionate about getting onto a public stage is Festpolonaise, a 1942 Harald Lander piece. “It hasn't been done since 1962. Nobody's there to teach it - I saw it on a video because it was done for TV to celebrate King Christian X of Denmark's anniversary and they filmed this pas de deux and it was with Fleming Flindt and Toni Lander. I thought it would be interesting because I hadn't done it and also people generally don't really know that Harald Lander has done anything but Etudes so I thought it would be nice to show something else. But then as we started rehearsals I thought, "Oh my God, this is really, really hard!" and then I spoke with Fleming Flindt and he was like, "Well, we never did that version on stage – no, it's way too hard, we only did that for the filming so we could do our best for two minutes!" and I was like, "You could have told me that half a year ago!" - so it's a tough one…” Kobborg is chuckling ruefully but there is a twinkle in his eye that betrays his relish of the challenge.

Kobborg isn’t dancing in every one of the six pieces – “Of course when you're doing an evening like this you can't do all the big ballet dancing numbers, you have to pace yourself - but when you get the idea of doing a Harald Lander pas de deux that hasn't been done since '62 and the owner of the ballet suddenly says, "Well, I'm not going to let anybody else than you do it." then suddenly I have to forget all the other things I wanted to do because if you want it on the programme I have to do that. And I can't do everything - it's four days in a row and I have to survive!” One piece he is perhaps alluding to missing out on is the new commission from a fellow native of Copenhagen, Kim Brandstrup, a man with a background in film and a reputation for narrative work even though his chosen field is contemporary dance. Although he has missed out personally on this piece due to time constraints, it is noteworthy that Kobborg has taken the creative risk of commissioning a new work – a far more admirable choice than simply throwing in a well-worn crowd-pleaser.

The issue of dancers having new work created on them is obviously a subject very close to his heart. “It's very rare that, nowadays, we have a chance to have new ballets created on us - I'd love to have a real meaty long ballet created. Quite often I think about Anthony Dowell and {Antoinette} Sibley and all these people who had all these amazing, milestone ballets created on them and how fantastic that must be… and it's a real pity because there are so many talented people in the company and so many different personalities and yet there's nobody to use that and do something. OK, there's been tons of small 20-minute ballets created and that's fine - but you do them for one season and then everybody's forgotten about them.”

Johan Kobborg and Alina Cojocaru
Photograph by Chris Nash ©

Strong feelings, but he denies any kind of discontent with the Royal Ballet. “Of course I would love to have stuff created on me but in a programme like this {Out of Denmark} I had to think about the fact that I have to teach people Napoli, I have to teach people some of the other duets and pas de deux and if I had to, at the same time, spend four hours in the studio during the day learning a new piece, creating a new piece, and I have to organise flight tickets and contracts and sceneries and costumes and... I think I am doing enough in the programme already {another chuckle} and I have never done The Lesson - that's a half-an-hour ballet, I have never done the Lander piece, so there's new things for me. In this season we have coming now there's not that many new things but still I'm looking forward to the season so it's not like I need constantly to get new stuff.”

His general contentment with life at the Royal Ballet is mirrored in his feelings about life in the English capital -

“I don't think I'll go back permanently to Denmark ever. I'll still go back sometimes to do something... but I really enjoy London and I enjoy all the things going on in London.” Johan Kobborg

when he finally gets to leave work. “I feel this is my home, definitely. I don't think I'll go back permanently to Denmark ever. I'll still go back sometimes to do something... but I really enjoy London and I enjoy all the things going on in London. In Denmark there is one company - there is no competition. Here there are so many things going on at the same time so we can't just relax, and somehow that creates quite a nice atmosphere.” There’s that desire for creating his own motivational pressure showing through again.

An interesting aspect of Kobborg’s career has been the number of Artistic Directors his companies have turned over during his time with them. “We had many years in Denmark where we had a new director every season or two,” but that wasn’t the only reason he decided to seek pastures new. “I was doing well there, but every time they {a new AD} came they brought their own dancers and a lot left - and suddenly the whole atmosphere of the place and the unity of the company was completely lost. I thought at that point that I had done all the ballets that I could possibly do in the rep at that time in Denmark.” This trend has continued at Covent Garden with three Directors since he joined in 1999 and he has a warning for Opera House management. “For me personally I don't think it really has that big an impact on my dancing career. For the company as a whole – yes, it can be can quite problematic. I’ve seen it destroy Denmark completely.”

If a lack of scope and organisational chaos were reasons for leaving, what made him join the Royal Ballet in 1999, a time of great uncertainty? “Coming from a "story tradition" company I felt this {RB} is also based on story ballets and dramatic stuff so I felt it was a sort of natural way to go. A lot of dancers who left Denmark went in the exact opposite {direction} and they went to New York City Ballet and don't want to know about stories and acting. They just want to move and dance. For me it's not interesting - it can be ok to do one piece but if I cannot use all the aspects of theatre in the long run it doesn't really interest me. And also I didn't have anybody really to dance with in Denmark. When I first started there, there was a small girl for me but by the time I finished they were all so tall, really really tall!”

I cannot then avoid starting the inevitable discussion regarding his much-acclaimed partnership with the young (and height-compatible) Alina Cojocaru. In the corridor outside of the Fonteyn studio where we chat the walls are lined with evocative

“It's nice when you find somebody you feel you can connect with and do special things with.” Johan Kobborg on working with Alina Cojocaru

photographs of the legendary Nureyev-Fonteyn partnership – the great dancers are still held up as icons to the new generation of talent on stage. He acknowledges the importance of finding the right partner. “It's nice when you find somebody you feel you can connect with and do special things with.” But although he agrees that the depth of talent is currently firmly on the side of the women, he laughs off suggestions that other Principal women may be jealous of the time Cojocaru gets to partner Kobborg. At least, “Not that I know of!”

So things are looking good for the Royal Ballet now. “It definitely seemed like towards the end of last season people were really coming together and finding a united way of thinking and doing things, People always think things can be better under different people and the grass is always greener on the other side but being a Director is very hard - if you have nearly a hundred dancers how can you keep everybody happy?” As somebody with an uncommonly broad experience of different Directors he has understandably dancer-centric views on what makes a good one. “I think it's being completely open about your thoughts and ideas and plans for people - because if, from the very beginning, you are able to talk to the person and say "Well, this is where I want to take this company, or this is where I see you as a dancer in this company," then at least people can say, "That's not enough for me" or whatever and they can leave. But if you don't have the correspondence with the Director then that's when you start to think, "What's going on...?" so I think it's very important to be completely open and then people know where they stand and they can like it or not but at least there's no surprises and you don't have to walk around being bitter. And also because the career is so short it's much better for the dancers to be told that.”

Turning our attention more to the future we discussed what 31-year old Kobborg sees in his. “From Denmark, I am not used to seeing people dancing when they are so old - people stop much sooner. I'll go on as long as I feel happy doing it and feel I can live up to my own expectations.” Kobborg sets his own standards very high and also feels he is still maturing as a dancer. “I can improve on everything. I feel I have gotten better and better with every year I've been here. Of course the workload has gotten more and more...so sometimes it is hard to keep the level going because you are so exhausted, but I really do feel I am still getting stronger and better. And those big ballet roles, you can keep developing and find others ways of doing them...you can get better. The only thing is, because I am not as tall as Jonny {Jonathan Cope} or some of these people, I probably won't be able to just walk on stage and look great and just lift the girl and not do much. I think, the kind of dancer I am, I'll have to dance in order to do the things on

“I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror and be happy with what I see.” Johan Kobborg

stage…” he tails off, considering some of these issues. I suggest Nureyev coped with advancing age and decreasing physical capabilities by adjusting his roles. “Yes, but it didn't look good, did it? I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror and be happy with what I see. If I know I can do something better, then I won't do it.” It’s clear enough that his acceptable quality threshold is set very high, but he also makes it clear that he doesn’t regard physical ability as all-important, rather it has to “go hand-in-hand. In a ballet like Mayerling the physical part is not the main thing, no it's not. So although at one point I might not be able to do it so well physically but maybe I am even better at the acting bit, understanding the role, then I will still do it. But there is a limit - if I'll have to start changing the choreography, or if I can't express the right feeling through just my physical doing... then there is no point. Then it's better to have something new created on you, that just uses what you can do.“

As a world-renowned dancer he gets plenty of guesting opportunities around the world (right after this show he is off

“I definitely want to choreograph at one point. If I had more time I would have loved to have done something for this programme.” Johan Kobborg

to Denmark, as well as giving performances in Romania and America in the next month). “That's great because then you get away but then you return - and you learn from all of those things.” His eyes engage with mine to give proper emphasis to his next plan for the future. “I definitely want to choreograph at one point. If I had more time I would have loved to have done something for this programme.” It will be interesting to see if Covent Garden will be providing the environment for him to explore this ambition – or if his potential talents are nurtured elsewhere.

As one of the most popular dancers at the Royal Ballet, held in especially high regard by those closest to the Company, he speaks carefully and emotionally about his feelings during an appreciative curtain call. “Those few seconds is when all the hard work, all the pain, all the cramps, that's when it's... ok.”

Johan Kobborg in the studio
Photograph by Chris Nash ©

Certainly his busy schedule has left him as somewhat tardy when it comes to getting online and reading some of his fan’s appreciative comments. “I don't have a computer - do you believe that? I don't have an email address, I don't have nothing. Well, when I went to Japan I did go on the 'Net - I have been on your site! It's also fun, because in Denmark you don't find the interest as you do here in London, at all.”

“For me, Act 3 Mayerling is the closest I get to being in heaven whilst still alive.” Johan Kobborg

His rise to prominence and popularity has fortuitously allowed him to take centre stage during the Royal Ballet’s recent celebration of Kenneth MacMillan's work. Kobborg's favourite pieces during his whole time at Covent Garden have been MacMillan's Manon and, especially, Mayerling. The passion and emotion that are so evident within the elegant architecture of his dancing technique come through strongly when explaining his love for this ballet. “For me, Act 3 Mayerling is the closest I get to being in heaven whilst still alive. I've never ever done any ballet where it has that feeling... when you push your body, because at that point you're more or less gone physically but still you have to push it, and you're so at the limit of what your body can take, mentally you're so far out… and when you're pushing your body like that, and your mind like that... it's quite a special thing. The last solos and pas de deux are just... it doesn't get any better. It doesn't.”