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I interviewed David Bintley during the Birmingham Royal Ballet's tour to Hong Kong in early March, when it gave five sold-out performances of Bintley's "Edward II".

Q: You said in a public gathering a short while ago that you ruled yourself out as a serious candidate for the directorship of the Royal Ballet. Why were you not tempted by this top job in British ballet? (My interview took place before the announcement of Ross Stretton as the next artistic director of the Royal Ballet.)

Bintley: I said I would not be a candidate. Actually I was speaking to the company, and I really was telling the company that I was not going to be leaving Birmingham. I think I was considered a frontrunner for the job. And I had actually had conversations with people.

I like it in Birmingham, basically. I like the company, I like the fact that we tour, I like the size we are. I like the creative freedom. It's a very difficult job at Covent Garden. I know I couldn't do what I would want to do there.

Q: I am aware that you have won a lot of critical acclaim for your enterprising policies since you took over as the artistic director of the Birmingham Royal Ballet (BRB) in 1995. But the Royal Ballet is generally regarded as the best company in Britain. Have you found it difficult to prevent BRB from being overshadowed by the Covent Garden company in terms of acclaim?

B: I think it seems that way. I think that the fact that they are based in the capital, that they are based at the Royal Opera House. Yes, I think that a lot of people consider that the Royal Ballet should be the best company. But I don't think that you necessarily have to be based in the capital to be the best company. If George Balanchine had settled in Chicago, it would have been the Chicago City Ballet! So I think people are more important than places. And also the Royal Opera House Covent Garden is one of the worst dance theatres in the country - you can't see anything, you can't hear anything.

I think the company has been overshadowed for many years. I think that the policies that we have undertaken since I have been director are the right policies, they are creative policies. I think that's what the critics believe a ballet company should be doing. And we have had good results with the new work. We have been lucky, and all in all, and it's not just me saying it, I would say currently we are the best company in the country. I think we have a very strong roster of dancers, we have the right policies, and we have had a bit of luck. We have also done some tremendous audience-building, we built an audience that has an appetite for new work, which I don't think exists at Covent Garden any more.

Q: What do you see as your major achievement since you took over as artistic director? Creativity?

B: I would think it's that. We have persuaded audiences that new work is not a high-risk thing any more. My "Arthur" was totally sold out in January. Who would have said five years ago that a brand-new ballet with a new score, of this kind of nature, would have sold out?

Q: Do you see BRB as a choreographers' instrument like New York City Ballet? Or rather as your instrument perhaps, since you are the principal choreographer?

B: I think as an instrument, and not just my instrument. It's a choreographers' company. I wanted to make a company that choreographers want to work with. We have had other choreographers like James Kudelka, Lila York from New York, Stanton Welch from Australia. Also we have a very good relationship with the Balanchine Trust. We managed to get "The Cage" from Jerome Robbins (when he was still alive) which was a great feat, as we were the first company outside New York to have that ballet.

Q: There is no doubt that your company is a creative force. But how come there aren't any major stars in your company like Sylvie Guillem and Darcey Bussell at Covent Garden?

B: This is the one problem that we have, in that most of the critics are based in London. When they come to see a performance that we do, they come and see the first night, but they don't see the other casts, and they are not familiar with the company. That is hard on our dancers, but here again I have to say this. We haven't got any stars like Sylvie Guillem and Darcey Bussell, but before them how many people who were in magazines and were household names did the Royal Ballet have since Fonteyn? I think it's more indicative of fashion magazines and the star system that those dancers are in fashion magazines more often than they are in dance magazines.

I develop dancers. I think stars are made by appearing in fashion magazines and on television. I don't think that stars are interesting. That's a different area. I am interested in wonderful dancers, that's all I want. We don't go out of our way to try and get them to be recognised faces, I don't think it's important. We are a company of dancers, not of models or film stars.

Q: But the English National Ballet is also a touring company, and the critics also attend the first nights mostly. Yet they have stars.

B: They are based in London. Most of that company is fronted by a rather ever-changing roster of guest artists. We never have guest artists working with us.

David Bintley
photo Bill Cooper

Q: Several years ago, you said in an interview in the "Dancing Times" that if you think a dancer has no future in your company, you wouldn't hesitate to tell him or her. But is it hard to avoid hurting the dancer's feelings?

B: I think that you have to be completely honest with dancers. I think dancers should know where they stand. It's the worst part of my job, in disappointing people within the company, not giving them the roles that they think they can do. But there are very very few dancers who have no future, as otherwise I wouldn't have employed them in the first place.

Q: In the 1980s you said in a public gathering which I attended that the three choreographers whom you most admire were Petipa, Ashton, and Balanchine. Are you still of this opinion?

B: It's changed now. Fred and Balanchine, yes. But Petipa has become a very remote figure to me, because I am not so sure how much of what we call Petipa is really his work. I think I like Ivanov as much as I like Petipa. I actually like Fokine now a lot. I increasingly admire Fokine. I like his ethic which I think is quite modern, in the idea that movement doesn't exist without having a reason. It's something that I follow very much in my narrative works, that every movement has to come from the dramatic situation or from an internal emotional expression. And I think that's very much what Fokine was doing with his shorter works.

Q: I remember in particular three of your ballets created in the 1980s - "Galanteries", "Consort Lessons", and "Young Apollo". Were you at that time influenced by Balanchine?

B: Yes, probably more than I would like to admit. I was doing a lot of abstract work at that time. Certainly "Young Apollo" was an homage to Balanchine. I think the other two were more influenced by Balanchine than I felt at the time. His influence was great, but I wasn't trying to copy him at all.

Q: What do you most admire about Balanchine?

B: I think it's the breadth, the size of his works that I like, because that's not a particularly English trait. (English dancing is much smaller.) With Balanchine, I admire the crudity of his works sometimes. It has an air that it's just been thrown down. His choreography always looks to me like it's been made quickly. Balanchine always gave the impression of being the complete master. Whereas Ashton it's like - every single detail is perfect, it's made like a watch.

Fred drew it out of the people in front of him. He gave dancers the impression that they were creating the piece, but they weren't, and I think that's a smokescreen. He would say "What do you want to do?" to Margot, but he wouldn't have let her do what she wanted to do at all. That was just an impression. He was very much in control.

Q: Who in your opinion is the greater choreographer - Ashton or Balanchine?

B: I like Ashton as much as I like Balanchine. Ashton's work draws out so much more understanding of a character. Essentially Fred was not an abstract choreographer. "Symphonic Variations" had a big theme and story which he pared away, because the making of it took so long, and he arrived at this very seemingly abstract thing. But it started as a story.

Balanchine worked with composers, and he commissioned a lot of wonderful music. For that he has my greater admiration. Ashton tended to stick with a lot of 19th century music, which often musically is not of interest in themselves. I would have to say that my mind is with Balanchine, but my heart is with Ashton.

Q: Have you been influenced by Kenneth MacMillan's choreography too?

B: Probably more influenced than I would like to admit, because I feel a greater kinship with Ashton. And also because I am of the immediate next generation from MacMillan, so I had to distance myself a little bit. But by inclination I am somebody who is interested in narrative dance, although it's not very fashionable.

Q: What about yourself? Do you create fast?

B: Yes, I would say so. I think I am fairly prolific as well. If you are prolific, then of necessity you make things fast, and that's the dynamism of your personality.

Q: Do you have a muse?

B: No, not really. I have a lot of muses. I have a whole company of muses, and I wouldn't like to pick one out. All dancers are different, and excel in different areas.

Q: Do you still create pure dance works?

B: I will be doing a pure dance work soon, as I haven't done any for a while. For five years I have been trying to change the repertory to get a lot of new work in. I think that what the public wants from new work is something that they can get hold of. In an abstract work, it's quite often difficult for an audience to get hold of - a lot of people dancing, you know.

If you are Balanchine, a lot of people dancing is great. If you are not Balanchine, it often isn't great. And I didn't want to do new work which would put people off. I last did a piece called "The Protecting Veil". It was largely plotless, but the audience didn't like it so much.

At the moment I am doing pieces which are very strong, very powerful in terms of narrative, because I want the audience to feel that the new work is interesting and exciting. It's easier to market and pull in people who haven't seen us before. With abstract work, it's more difficult to persuade people. Still we did a whole programme of Balanchine works recently.

As Balanchine said, you have to prepare a gourmet meal as well as fast food! I have to prepare a range of work for the company.

Q: Why is it that your ballets are being seen less often at Covent Garden? Is it because you prefer your works to be seen in Birmingham, or is it Anthony Dowell's decision?

B: But the Royal Ballet did "Galanteries" recently, not very well. They also did "Consort Lessons" two years ago. And they still do "Penguin". They have their own choreographers, and I can understand why Anthony doesn't see me as a choreographer that he wants to promote, because I am running the rival company.

I took "Penguin" and "Tombeau" from Covent Garden into our repertory. I want to see my works done the best that they can be. San Francisco Ballet is doing my "Dance House" right now. Stuttgart Ballet will revive "Edward II" next year.

Q: Are Peter Wright's productions still in the repertory? I know you mounted a new production of "Giselle" last October.

B: Peter's version of "Giselle" was the old Covent Garden production going back to the 1960s. We needed a new production. We still do his "Swan Lake", "Sleeping Beauty", "Nutcracker", "Coppelia". These more recent productions are good, and I don't see the need to replace them as yet.

One of the reasons why I wanted to do "Giselle" is because I have a boy who is a perfect Albrecht. Andrew Murphy is a true danseur noble. And I have a very gifted dramatic ballerina Leticia Muller - the best since Lynn Seymour, that's what I would say. I have to give these people the chance to do those roles.

Q: Can you name some new talented dancers in your company?

B: Robert Parker will make his debut in "Edward II" here in Hong Kong. He is a very exciting dancer. He is dancing it with Ambra Vallo who is replacing Leticia Muller who is injured. Monica Zamora and Sabrina Lenzi are exciting. I am very happy with all the principals that we have got doing major roles, they are very talented. The ethic of the company is quite democratic, and that's what I mean it to be. I don't have a company where you have one or two dancers leading it. When Peter Wright was in charge, this company was very much fronted by Miyako Yoshida. That's the problem at Covent Garden. Who wants to see "La Bayadere" without Sylvie Guillem, Darcey Bussell, or Irek Mukhamedov? Who wants to see it with Muriel Valtat or Belinda Hatley! But they are very good dancers. Now I have strong dancers right across the board, and that's better for choreographers.

The most important part of the company's work is new work, and you have to fix that firmly down the dancers' mind. And it's a lot less important whether a dancer is perfectly proportioned, if Twyla Tharp is coming to work with you. So that's why we have a broad variety of dancers, and I wouldn't say this dancer is a star.

Q: How do you see the future of classical ballet?

B: I think that classical dance is a global language. As far as I can see, the real future is when that language is used as a cultural tool. And if ballet has to go forward, it has to be particularised.

Take Jerome Robbins who is less pure as a choreographer than Balanchine. Robbins' work is on one hand completely classical, but on the other hand is completely American. He used classicism as a cultural tool to express his Americanism, in the same way that Ashton used the classical language to express his English romanticism.

Q: Have you thought about the preservation of your ballets for future generations, even though you are still young? I ask this question, as I see a decline of the Balanchine repertory at New York City Ballet and a decline of the Ashton repertory at the Royal Ballet.

B: My own ballets? In fifty years' time I'll be dead, and I won't care. I feel just as you say, that these works do decline, and it's not because people don't care. It's because the choreographer isn't there. And I wonder if that isn't the nature of dance. That's just what happens.